Women and Modesty

What Islam can teach us

Another day at the bus stop and another array of scantily clad women, and questionable choices in make-up and hair-dos.  I shake my head.

I walk further down the street and notice a cluster of Moslem women in Hijab (scarf) and I smile.  I smile because not only are they dressed in a way that honors their faith, they are dressing in a way that honors them. Now I will probably get my share of naysayers in the crowd but I see this as refreshing and a pleasant departure of the flagrant slide into semi whoredom of some women.  Let me preface this by saying how you dress is a choice and it says something about "you".  There should be some freedom in selection of course.  However the line must be drawn somewhere and who is drawing it?...

Black women are beautiful.  Their bodies, skin, and attributes are by far some of the most beautiful if not the most beautiful in the world.  However we haven't made concious decisions about what we are about.  I remember living in Chicago and the Black Muslims would always come by selling  Mohammed speaks, and fish.  I would read the Newspapers and they always had very nice cartoons.  They had one that depicted how a shameless woman dressed; short skirt, etc. and one that showed how a woman of class/modesty dressed.  It always impressed me, but at that young age I was unsure of what it was saying to me personally.  I never took it in or explored it in more depth.

Now that I am older and have experienced life, I realize that how we dress means a great deal.  How we deport ourselves in public also reveals a great deal whether we want it to or not.  I am invested personally in seeing black women do better and have better representations of themselves.  Do we really need to dress with our midriffs showing? Do we really need two pounds of make-up to go to the drugstore? Do we need to wear pants so tight it reveals all of the parts of us that only our husbands should know about? And, how do we act in public? Do we act in a way that honors ourselves and families and children? Do we talk too loud? The answer here is yes.  I have done a personal observational on this and it is sadly true.  I can walk down the street, go into a store, any store and anywhere there is a group of black women they are talking louder than necessary to carry on a conversation with the person next to them.  Not only that why do we laugh like hyenas? A pleasant smile is enough, a nod of the head.

Cell phones have become our nemesis.  If we talk loud in groups, we talk even louder if we are on the cell phone.  I say give it a break, speak softly.  Someone once told me that people listen better when you speak softly.  I agree.  Nothing is more pleasant than a woman who can contain her tongue, and deport herself with elegance and poise.  I started this discussion with a reference to Islam and the veil.

I think that for me it is a representation of what femininty should strive for.  That our great power is not to be displayed like groceries, and that our personal internal recognition of our power and femininty should be enough.  For myself I do not get involved in the klatches of hee hawing females in the workplace.  They don't realize how they embarrass themselves and other blacks.   Black men most likely realize that they seek something softer and contained.  And perhaps when they seek out caucasian or even asian females they are really trying to find what they desire not so much racially but emotionally. There is a stereotype that these females are softer.  They know the trick of a soothing soft voice, and how to be "pleasing".  The movie; Memoirs of a Geisha is mostly about enhancing one's self to the optimum in the feminine. 

In my travels I have found that the reputation of black women preceeds them.  And it is not always positive, and it does not serve us all as females trying to have "good lives."  There is always compromise and perhaps we need to back down a little in being "strong" and try harder to be "soft".  The sword we carry needs to be sheathed.  If we value ourselves and our bodies our sexuality will not be so readily compromised at the drop of a hat.  As I told a gentleman recently, who declared he was "attracted" to me; "I will not go to my husband dirty."

He understood this and he backed down.  The reality being, he was not prepared to "honor" me with marriage, but he wanted the sex.  I refused to do this.  I have to honor "me" and not allow myself to tricked, and conjoled into sexual trysts that are only satisfying for the moment and devalue and degrade me as a female.  The interesting thing is, he said to me; "I respect you more for your refusal." There it is.  Perhaps the veil in reality is a far stretch unless you are muslim, but we should veil ourselves conceptually because we do have value and worth.  Tap into it everyday. 

Comments

[SmartBlkWoman]

With the advent of music videos, more and more black women are getting the idea that being vulgar is being "adult" and that its the kind of behavior that men like. And truth be told, men don't like it, they like it in the long run but they don't want to come home to a wife thats given out more rides than a city bus.

Unfortunately women like Karrine Steffans aka Superhead are getting alot of attention and its sending a very bad message to and about women in general.

[Don't Push Me]

I don't think that a women's dress determines her sexual activity. I mean, just because her ass is hanging out doesn't mean that she's a superfreak.

I actually like to look at women and whether they're covered up or close to naked, it doesn't stop my imagination from working.

Plus, I actually enjoy a woman in my company who can attract attention. I look at women whether they have on a suit or Apple Bottom Jeans. I think the issue here is what type of attention she recieves... and I don't really see that as something she can totally control.

Yes, she can be smart about it. But she can't make fools act like fools. I see women half naked all the time in the town (Oakland). But I dont' whistle of holla at my car window, "Hey."

Secondly, I think it's also how she carries herself. Chest out or not, a man can sense if a woman has a nice rack. Now whether he can or cannot maintain eye contact is his issue. And whether she decides to wear them in or out is her decision.

I agree to a degree that some Black women are off the hook when it comes to their everyday dress. However, I think the maturity of actions and reactions should be equally weighed on both sides.

One question: If men didn't drool over ass and tits, do you think women would still flaunt them in short skirts, tight pants and shirts?

I hope so. Beacuse I got enuff sense to look, if I'm going to look, and not let my drool hit the ground in the process.

I love women and they way the dress. Yeah, sometimes it's over the edge. But no matter if I can only see their eyes or damn near the whole body, I find a way to enjoy the visual (Islamic women included).

[satisfiedsistah]

To Don't Push Me...

Well you have stated your position and it's clear to some degree men with your attitude contribute to the deliquency of weak women. Ass and Tits as you put it have never been what should attract a man to a woman no more than penis length and girth should attract a woman to a man. Men keep that hidden don't they? What if women only looked at men who exposed their manhood? and then only accepted those who had the size? With the tables turned it doesn't look so excusable does it?

[Don't Push Me]

All I'm saying is that I'm a bird watcher. I'm not aiming at every bird that flies by. I'm just looking. How can I not? And how does looking contribute to the "deliquency of weak women?"

I'd be a liar if I said I didn't look and I'd be blind if I said I didn't see anything.

Tits and Ass aren't what I purely look for in a woman in order to be attracted. Sure, they have a physical influence on some levels, but overall I'd be a fool to chase tits and ass all over the place.

And as for turning the tables, I'm sure women do their version of bird watching too. I'm speak from experience. A woman once walked straight up to me and grabbed my crotch. No she wasn't classy or even good looking. She was a crackhead. But she was a woman and she seemd to like it. As for me, I wasn't too thrilled.

[miss ahmad]

As a woman who was raised in an Islamic household, i find this posting on the verge of being offensive in more ways than one.

[satisfiedsistah]

I think dont push me has his own agenda. And there in lies the problem. He wants women to dress suggestively so he can have his daily fun. And if a crack head did what you said, well consider the source. I wouldn't brag about it. Which points to another dilemna in the black population, men who don't understand and don't support modesty in women. It has implications that far out stretch your eyeball candy Don't Push me. I hope one day you will "get it"
Peace

[emergingpheonix]

Wow! Another lively one. I just want to lighten the tone, by responding to satisfiedsistah and saying: I had a fellow coworker who was a white, blonde haired blue eyed, little thing(description only so you can get an idea of her appearance and where she may fall in mainstream society), most men assumed was innocent at first glance, but were very excited to find that she was every bit the undercover skank. Her criteria for men included a 6 figure salary, and to be hung like a moose (she even dated a guy nicknamed “moose” once *huge smile*). To the point though, she would gather all this information at whatever venue (be it bar, restaurant, night club, etc.) before agreeing to any dates, by blantanly asking for his salary and what he did, and also grabbing his nether regions to confirm size. So yes, some women do turn the tables sometimes. LOL, I am cosigning DontPushME. Suprisingly, most men don’t take offense to it, and some even consider her marriage material – go figure.

I did want to respond to your post though, and say that I do see a need for modesty (or humility in my opinion) in some black women. Some women need to get a grip and realize rap video hoes, are not a good representation of how a woman should carry herself. Some black women, need to get back to their feminine roots, and shed the armor of slavery and deliberate segregation. I think that it is a fine line we have to walk, though, considering the general population will still treat us without respect and in some cases go out of there way to humiliate the black woman (since they are too afraid to say what they have to say to the black man). We also have to remember that these other women have men that not only honor them, but will go to battle for them (the battle these days, being one of clever biting wit). I strive for a prim and yet playful demeanor, but it is hard to maintain, when some _____ man (insert whatever non-black race), is always attacking me based on black stereotypes, or questioning my sophistication, while some brotha is standing there either sneering in agreement (looking like he’s ready to bludgeon me to death as well), or looking at me like “please don’t get me involved”, or “I hope you can handle this one girrrrl”. I am not going to sit here and say never has a black man defended my honor, but I will say that I witness or I am the center of situations like this far too often. It is a group effort… and if we are going to strive for the utmost in femininity and sophistication, our men need to step up and strive for the utmost in honor, and integrity.

To DontPushMe - Please, PLEASE, PLEASE try and understand how your overall approach to women is really part of the problem. Everyone likes to look...we are a visual species...but your ideals in a woman (if you really are searching for the "ONE", that is) seem very skewed towards looks in general. I realize you live on the west coast, and a lot of people are shallow here, even in Northern Cali (where the theme is either sex industry plastic, or slightly extreme thin), but you really talk about a womans looks sooooo much that I have to wonder, if you have ever gotten past that with someone, other than girls who ultimately end up as friends. I also have to wonder if you express to your male friends that what you want is a well-rounded woman, or if you smile in agreement at the worshipped...video hoe?

[emergingpheonix]

Ohhh...and I don't mean express your ideal woman all the time, because I know that doesnt fly well with the men folk. ;-)

[msjulala]

do you realize in more ways than one in which your comments are limiting to black women? all black women aren't loud and nor are other women of other races timid and docile!

you say "Black men most likely realize that they seek something softer and contained. And perhaps when they seek out caucasian or even asian females they are really trying to find what they desire not so much racially but emotionally. There is a stereotype that these females are softer. They know the trick of a soothing soft voice, and how to be "pleasing". The movie; Memoirs of a Geisha is mostly about enhancing one's self to the optimum in the feminine."

you identify this as a stereotype, but somehow you are arguing that this should be the mold of black femininity.

you said:"A pleasant smile is enough, a nod of the head."

what are we, robots now?

I respect your opinion as it relates to what you are striving for, but by all means please do not lump the rest of in your quest to prove how feminine you are.

[satisfiedsistah]

Thank you for reading my piece. I am sorry if you were offended by anything posted. However I stand by what I observed, and what I have said. You have the right to disagree and I have a right to say it. Also thanks for responding. And yes, I am feminine and loving it.

[Don't Push Me]

Thank you ladies for all of your words. After some thought I agree--on some levels--that my complacent stance as a "bird watcher" could very well be a contributor to the degredation of the Black woman's image if I continue to silently approve of Daisy Dukes, see through clothing etc...
I can agree that our Black women can employ a more humble effort to present themselves at times. Islamic women may be an extreme example of this and like I said, whether showing or not, a woman's dress no matter how revealing or not it is, does not have the abilty to detour a man's imagination (please trust me on that one). In essence, there is no attraction lost when a woman covers herself.
In fact, I believe that a modest woman attracts modest healthy attention. This we could use more of especially if we are to raise a generation a children to intelligently follow us in American society.

Secondly, I agree with MsJulala. It seems unfair to "lump" Black women into a categroy of loud talkers. Yes, I've witnessed some uneccesary cell phone behaviour in public, but my mama don't do that--and she's black.

People are individuals, however as a culture and race we do have some siumilarities and issues that we can come together, appreciate and/or iron out for a better deffinition of African-American.

Please know your words don't fall on deaf ears.

I appreciate the discussion and hope that all these words can be collectively considered in order fo us to heal our community and raise our children functionally.

[Don't Push Me]

SatisfiedSista:

I wasn't "bragging" about the crackhead grabbing my crotch. I was just mentioning it. It happened.

[Dynamite Soul]

As a woman who converted to Islam 10yrs ago. I am familiar with those who are on both sides of the spectrum.

There are men who will like you because of your hair type, body type, etc. But they don't know if you are some random jerk, have mental problems, nothing...

The thing about it is that that is men. To ask them not to look is to ask a woman not to have PMS. No matter how hard we try, our true nature will show through.

To the dude who likes to look, I hear ya. I've met you a million times.

Men will look and do look, no matter what a woman wears, but here is what I have experienced. Respect. Some dudes have actually been afraid of me, and this is pre-9/11. When I talk, they listen. I began to wonder why, but then it dawned on me that I was looking like I could give a damn about the common man's standard of beauty. Men are not judged by their looks alone, we have to know where their heads are at. The same is true when you force them to ONLY know you for your spirit. This scares a lot of men. No one steps to me and tries to play me because they know the deal. I am in a way, oppressing them by hiding the very thing they have grown accustom to judging me by. I don't mean to sound haughty, cause that's not the point. The point is that there are two parties responsible here, not just one. It is how a woman presents herself, BUT ALSO how a man responds. Many men are extremely irresponsible when it comes to this. Some are terrible judges of character. Black women are not looking like the brightest bulb on the chandalier either. AIDS statistics anyone?

So yes, it pays to be modest, but in the absence thereof, it pays to be a responsible man. These are your sisters, mothers, and daughters you are dealing with. These are your Dr.'s and nurses, and the teachers of your children. These are your policewomen and firewomen. They have a lot more to offer than just their bodies, and if they don't know that, then it is YOU oh MAN, who needs to aide in bringing it to their attention. Do you know what a HERO you would be?

And let me say this, I am a muslim woman, but I am no joke. My husband will tell you this. I am careful, and caring. We bug out and do our thing, but when it comes to respect, I will not settle for anything other than. Our strength as Black women does not have to be diminished in order to be feminine, we only need to know when to display it. There is a time, and place, and sometimes the biggest display of strength is silence, cause it is hard to do.

Also, just because all non-black women are not "submissive", does not mean that Black men actually KNOW THAT. Sorry, but we still reside in predominately Black neighborhoods for what it is worth, and therefor all many know about another group, is what they have learned by some form of media. We don't get much non-black visitors in our hoods and when we do, they rarely speak english wich only sustains the ignorance on both sides.PSA

I can appreciate what all have had to offer, and I think that the exchange was worth reading. Afterall, if everyone agreed, then the author would just be preaching to the choir, and noone would have learned anything, right?

Anyway, I am off my soapbox now, I just wanted to chime in and give you my perspective on things. PEACE

[flavaflav]

So i can understand what your getting at with your stance on black women and their promiscuities but to use islamic women as a mean to point it out is very wrong. i won't try demean your point about women wearing short skirts and letting their ass hang out, but i will tell you that when an islamic women wears her dress it is out of a sign of strict religion and extreme oppression. there is no taking a day off, they must continually wear that dress 130 degrees or 50 degrees. women in the middle east will get stoned to death purely on the fact that she may have shown more skin than is allowed, ie ankle skin or a wrist. so now you've had your eyes opened to the realities of another culture. i will tell you that when i see a loud black women with cutoff shorts and her belly's hangin out of her tube top. i am disgusted, appalled and feel we are in clear need of a structure for that. it demotes and devalues the views that we have that black women can be equal to a normal society.
PS i've been to iraq and understand islamic culture better than most. Miss ahmad, i have no prejudice against your culture just the stuff in the qu'ran dignifying killing non muslims.
-white boy